March 30, 2007 Chat with Carl About Run BASIC

[BillB] Good morning Jerry.

[CarlGundel] Hey guys!

[BillB] Hello Carl.

[CarlGundel] I see we're a few minutes early. Jerry, I thought you couldn't make it?

[CarlGundel] Hold on, I'll be back in a couple of minutes.

[jmuelver] I strongarmed a computer connection on a forged login....

[BillB] You know what they say about those who can't take a joke.

[jmuelver] Yes, I do, but I promised to withhold political comments today.

[BillB] This chat time is probably a little late for Asia, 'bout right for Europe and too early for the western hemisphere.

[CarlGundel] Okay. I'm back now. Did you miss me?

[CarlGundel] You guys wanna buy a bridge? ;-)

[BillB] Yes

[CarlGundel] That's what I thought.

[BillB] as in guitar, buss, brooklyn, dental appliance, transportation span?

[CarlGundel] You guys wanna buy an BASIC web app server?

[BillB] How close are you with the release?

[BillB] I've a little utilized linux system I'd like to play with.

[CarlGundel] We're hoping to start testing it in a few weeks. Release will probably be a couple of months after that.

[Jerry] I'm in the market for web app server. I can test on Win, Mac OSX, Linux....

[CarlGundel] The initial release will be a personal license. Later we plan on a more professional level system.

[Jerry] "Personal"... Runs on my PC, or on sweb server?

[CarlGundel] Personal means has fewer features and costs less. You will still be able to use it to host apps on the internet or on your local lan.

[Jerry] Okay. So it needs a server. Runs on its own, or on top of Apache or SII?

[CarlGundel] For example Jerry, we had batted about the idea of database connectivity for the product. The personal license might not have that, or it might have something simple like SQLLite.

[CarlGundel] Run BASIC is a web server. You can hide it behind Apache or something similar of course if you need/want to.

[BillB] If you want to mirror the online version, you have mucho space available at

[CarlGundel] I'm currently running the free Run BASIC site behind Apache, but I could also just expose Run BASIC to the internet at large and it would still work.

[CarlGundel] Thanks Bill. I'll let you know if I need to do something like that.

[Jerry] Deploys, how? Seaside image?

[CarlGundel] Run BASIC will deploy as a VM and an image. When you start it you will not see any Smalltalk or Seaside related things.

[Jerry] How do I upload it to my ISP account?

[CarlGundel] I'm not sure what you mean. You can use FTP, for example.

[Jerry] Or, for K12 setting, to my OS X server?

[Jerry] Well, PHP scripts have got to hav PHP enabled on the server. Does RunBASIC need anything enabled on the server?

[CarlGundel] No. Run BASIC is a standalone system.

[Jerry] Could, for instance, poke it into my BanPro or GoDaddy hoting accounts?

[CarlGundel] That's one of the nice things about it. You don't need anything else.

[CarlGundel] I have no idea what your TOS is for BanPro or GoDaddy.

[Jerry] Spooky. What can we play with "Personal"?

[Jerry] I'll have to explore the TOS thing. I own the TOS on the Mac servers at school.

[CarlGundel] Not yet. I am still tying some loose ends together. Like I said, testing will start in a few weeks. I'll shoot for end of April.

[Jerry] I meant, when can get personal?

[CarlGundel] You can use Run BASIC Personal in a school to create applications, but it will only have one password protected account so it won't be suitable for classroom instruction.

[Jerry] For database, TDB (Trivial DB) would be good enough.

[Jerry] Could write apps that require login to run, though.

[CarlGundel] Is that a product?

[CarlGundel] Sure you can. Have you seen the blog app screencast yet?

[Jerry] It's an ancient philosophy. Sequential text file, records tagged with fieldnames.

[CarlGundel] Gotcha. Yup, I've written a lot of programs that use TDB.

[Jerry] Haven't seen the screencast.

[CarlGundel] Too bad.

[BillB] (?)nix machines could probably use http redirects through .htpassword. Something similar through IIS.

[Jerry] When will the free version have some storage on-server, like maybe user accounts? Log in, get a list of your apps on-file....

[Jerry] Will the Beta have RunBASIC widgets for all the HTML form controls?

[CarlGundel] Well Jerry, I'm not sure how to approach that. On the one hand that might make the site more popular. On the other hand it could bring the site to its knees if too many people decide to use it all the time.

[CarlGundel] I suppose that could be considered a good problem to have.

[Jerry] Multiple RB engines?

[CarlGundel] Yes, we'll be adding lists and checkboxes. An image map of some kind, etc.

[BillB] I suspect there's a point of deminishing return if the "free" version gets too robust.

[CarlGundel] I could easily run more RB engines I suppose. It would be easier to justify if it would make $$$.

[Jerry] When an RB program is compiled, does it run on its own, or does the interpreter have to keep a hand in things?

[CarlGundel] Yes, the free version is supposed to attract interest.

[CarlGundel] Compiled Run BASIC programs are manifested as an executable object model. So there's a complete Smalltalk support system there to make it all work.

[CarlGundel] This is similar to the legacy LB stuff, but more sophisticated.

[Jerry] Can RB "talk" to JavaScript, pass variable values back and forth?

[CarlGundel] Run BASIC uses Seaside to do that. I don't usually need to worry about that stuff because I just build the web UI out of Smalltalk objects. On the other hand, sometimes I do need to know a bit about what's going on, but not usually.

[Jerry] Can I "call" RB programs directly through the web, like calling a PHP file on a site?

[CarlGundel] I haven't designed a feature like that, but I imagine that it can be done.

[Jerry] So, can I intercept a Submit with JS onClick, vett the form's control contents, and pass the control values to RB?

[CarlGundel] Why do you want to do that when it is done for you automatically?

[Jerry] Like, and up pops a RB program asking for my credit card number?

[CarlGundel] You will probably be able to do that, but you won't need to deal with JS or forms or whatever.

[Jerry] I'm not clear on the "automatic" part. I know how RB handles form controls. I guess I'm looking for how to handle the form controls that RB doesn't handle yet.

[Jerry] You're saying I can already get and assign form values, and don't need to fret with JavaScript, right? Perfect!

[CarlGundel] It isn't clear to me how you would do that Jerry. Perhaps once we've got this system all working I'll have some cycles to invest to make things open enough so that webheads like you can have your cake and eat it too.

[CarlGundel] No promises though. Seaside may get in the way. We'll see.

[Jerry] I don't think we've pushed Seaside anywhere near its capabilities, yet. So, I'm not worried.

[CarlGundel] The real goal of Run BASIC is a web programming system for people who know *nothing* about web programming. Know a little BASIC? You're all set!

[BillB] So, where's the support network going to come from?

[Jerry] I seem to be developing a mixed-language programming style for RB apps, intermingling HTML and RB coding, at least for page payout and presentation. Is that the optimal method? Or will RB handle all layout demainds?

[CarlGundel] It's been an interesting experience trying to present Run BASIC to the programming community. It isn't like anything else. In some ways it's even easier than Smalltalk+Seaside.

[CarlGundel] testing

[Jerry] Okay. Do it all in RB. I'm already think about an RB preprocessor, for people who know nothing about HTML and less about BASIC.....

[CarlGundel] testing

[CarlGundel] Okay, I was having some problems with the chat system. Seems okay know.

[Jerry] Yeah. We stuffed a buffer a bit....

[Jerry] PHP does that, sometimes. RB, of course, won't have that problem....

[CarlGundel] What do you mean Bill?

[CarlGundel] Verizon maybe?

[CarlGundel] Once we start beta testing we should definitely open a Just BASIC forum instead of just having a spot on the LB conforums site.

[Jerry] Yeah! Who's going to answer all the questions?

[CarlGundel] You are.


[Jerry] How about a subscription mentoring service?

[BillB] Presently, every "programmer" wants to aquire LB and start writing the next MS replacement. You know there'll be many more questions about RB

[CarlGundel] Maybe I should do that for LB?

[CarlGundel] Hi Bill

[BillW] Hey Carl, all

[BillW] can't stay long, just checking in from the Apple Store

[CarlGundel] Well, to see the whole chat so far you might try typing /show 500

[BillW] it's looking pretty interesting

[BillW] well, I'll look more when I get back home

[CarlGundel] Well, about LB, we should be able to start working on that in earnest in a few months.

[BillW] I'm supposed to be pricing a new Mac for dev purposes

[Jerry] I'd like to develop a features and advantages comparison chart, positioning RB against other web-based scripting options, and the whole category against desktop programming endeavors. The idea is to get a feel for which way to jump, depending on what the app requires.

[CarlGundel] Can you pick one of those 15" MacBook Pros up for me while you're there?\

[Jerry] For instance, what can you do in RB that you can't in PHP, or vice versa?

[Jerry] Or, is the main point simply that you can do all the same stuff, but a lot easier?

[BillW] Carl, if you could answer this sometime before the chat is done... what sort of overhead does the RB server require?

[BillW] going now

[Jerry] And, what do you have to give up, if anything, for that enhanced ease-of-use?

[CarlGundel] Bye Bill

[CarlGundel] Hi Alyce!

[Alyce] hi

[Jerry] Everybody hide your stuff! Alyce is here!

[BillB] I don't have any stuff.

[Jerry] Somebody hand Bill some stuff.

[CarlGundel] It's hard to say precisely Bill because we currently run it in a full blown Smalltalk development image. So, right now when Run BASIC is started it immediately consumes 40MB of RAM. The final system will consume less.

[CarlGundel] Okay, all hidden.

[CarlGundel] It's hard for me to compare RB against PHP because I don't know PHP.

[CarlGundel] The programming and deployment model is simpler in RB than in the standard CGI style of programming which you use whether it's with Perl, PHP, Ruby, etc.

[Jerry] Well, I do. So I suppose I should start laying out the parameters.

[CarlGundel] Also, you don't need to learn multi paradigm system programming with RB. All you need to learn is one application, and a simple BASIC programming language.

[BillB] So Carl, are you and Scott going to have the horses to bring LB5, LB4.xx, RB Free, RB Personal, RB PRo to the unwashed masses in 30 days?

[CarlGundel] Nope.

[CarlGundel] I wish it were so.

[CarlGundel] Hi Chris

[ChrisI] hi

[BillB] Is RB taking priority?

[BillB] Seems like your excitement lies in that direction.

[Jerry] Can I "chain" RB apps, feeding data from one into the other?

[CarlGundel] What do you have to give up for the ease of use? Some flexibility I suppose. I think that Run BASIC will be good at what BASIC has always been good for. Easy programming for the average person, but for the web. Will it displace the currently popular ways of doing things?

[CarlGundel] Perhaps in a small way, but mostly it will just enable new kinds of people and new kinds of projects.

[CarlGundel] RB is taking priority for the moment, yes.

[CarlGundel] We'll have to see about the chaining feature Jerry. It isn't in there at this time.

[Jerry] Well, if I can store a file, then open a new RB app and read that file....

[CarlGundel] You can.

[CarlGundel] Or rather I should say that it shouldn't be a problem doing that.

[Jerry] It might be good enough to have a menu of apps, available to choose from, like you examples list on the RB site.

[BillB] you'd have to add some seaaion like legs to the virtual files as the free vesion presently creates.

[CarlGundel] The free site virtualizes the file system only to prevent abuse of our system.

[Jerry] Can RB grab a data file from another server on the web? For instance, draw from a common databank of subs and routines and format files?

[CarlGundel] The commercial versions won't have a virtualized file name.

[CarlGundel] file system, I mean.

[BillB] Do you really feel that the web user who buys a 4.95/mo website will need/want/use anything other than the content manager/ template library that comes with the basic site?

[CarlGundel] I'm working on that sort of thing Jerry. At the very least you will be able to fetch a file from a URL.

[CarlGundel] It won't be hard to write an RSS feed reader or aggregator for example.

[Jerry] Perfect. You can put text files at a URL for fetching.

[ChrisI] wow

[ChrisI] this is looking good so far

[CarlGundel] Bill, the average user does not write programs, so to answer your question, no.

[Jerry] Interesting point, Bill. The old "you can lead a horse to water" concept....

[CarlGundel] The same sort of personality who enjoys programming in QBasic or LB or some similar language will also enjoy RB. I have no doubt.

[ChrisI] I know I'll have fun with it...

[CarlGundel] Also, the core technology in RB will make an excellent platform for web based programming instruction.

[Jerry] Consider, though, the options for those who want to do interactive stuff. I've been there, done that, with Perl, PHP, JavaScript, Java.... Gruesome....

[Alyce] I'm having trouble scrolling up to read the earlier part of the chat, so forgive me if this has been asked already...

[CarlGundel] I'm hoping that we can sell site licenses to schools.

[Alyce] Will there be a way to display image files like GIF, play midi, etc.

[Jerry] You should have a wrapper app already done for them, to jumpstart the operation for instructional development.

[BillB] alyce did you /show 1000?

[Alyce] Yes, Bill, but it keeps jumping back to the bottom when somebody enters

[CarlGundel] You can already display GIF images by embedding HTML. I would gess that you can play MIDI the same way. Perhaps we will also add native commands for these things also. We'll see.

[CarlGundel] Just copy and paste the text into notepad.

[ChrisI] that's a good idea... wish I had done it :P

[CarlGundel] Jerry, yes we intend to build a complete system for classroom instruction.

[ChrisI] will there be a way to pass variables into an RB program?

[Jerry] Moodle-like?

[ChrisI] I mean, similar to what PHP does

[CarlGundel] Don't know Moodle.

[ChrisI] e.g. the ?var1=2&var3=whee

[ChrisI] some way to have a LB program be able to pass variables to an RB program.

[CarlGundel] Chris, you mean in the URL? Yes. We will support that.

[ChrisI] cool

[Jerry] Moodle is in PHP, about 900 pages of HTML files, handles everything from student registration to lessons to quizzes to branching PI to grading to forums.... Sheesh.... Too intimidating.

[CarlGundel] We haven't really considered any sort of LB to RB bridge.

[ChrisI] Just wondering, I've done similar stuff with PHP files.

[CarlGundel] We'll start small. It will also specialize in teaching programming interactively, which I believe it can do better than other products.

[ChrisI] sweet

[Jerry] RB is, indeed, LOGO-like. It will make an excellent tinro to programming tool.

[Alyce] Hi Jan

[BillB] sounds like a major development target will be an interactive debugger.

[CarlGundel] Debugging will be interesting. Probably won't be very fancy at first.

[CarlGundel] We don't have a debugger at this time.

[CarlGundel] Well, actually we do if I consider the LB5 debugger. But that doesn't run in a web browser. Perhaps we can use it anyway.

[BillB] maybe have errors bounce into the help file... that'd be one way to get it read.

[CarlGundel] I think we may be able to do something effective in the browser though. We're going to give it a try.

[BillW] well, if it's a home server, the LB5 debugger could work

[Jan] Hi, everyone. I don't want to interrupt.

[BillW] have you considered the ability to virtualize URLs?

[BillW] ala mod_rewrite under apache

[ChrisI] Hi, jan

[CarlGundel] No Bill, but I'm open to suggestions.

[CarlGundel] I see. Probably if people want to rewrite URLs in that way they should consider running Apache. That's what I do. Perhaps once we get the core features of RB done I can consider such things.

[BillB] so Carl, sneak peek into time line. You said late April for some form of personal RB, what about other stuff on your plate.

[BillW] Wait... is this run through Apache or something?

[ChrisI] it can be, as I understand it

[CarlGundel] Run BASIC does not require Apache.

[ChrisI] it can also be run stand-alone

[BillW] but it can be run through apache?

[CarlGundel] However it can be run behind Apache.

[BillW] sweet!

[CarlGundel] Apache can be set up as a proxy for any other kind of web server, including another running instance of Apache if you like.

[BillW] I'll have to look into that

[CarlGundel] As for other things on my plate, right now I am investing cycles in LB v4.04, especially since Vista was released.

[BillW] will we see any new features in 4.04? just wondering...

[CarlGundel] I do have a Vista machine now to do my testing on. I was holding off since I read so many horror stories about upgrading. Finally I got the sense that this is immediately impacting our sales. So I caved.

[Jerry] Can I park the RB image on top of my Squeak VM, or should I grab Seaside to do the job?

[CarlGundel] LB v4.04 is a bugfix release. No new features.

[BillW] ok

[CarlGundel] You don't need a copy of Squeak or Seaside to use RB. It will come all in one.

[Jerry] Great. Let know when, and I can break into someone's broadband for the download.

[CarlGundel] testing

[BillB] all is well.

[CarlGundel] One thing that I haven't given much thought to is whether or not to offer a trial version of RB.

[BillB] Would you need more than the free version?

[CarlGundel] I've been mostly thinking that the free site and some well don't screencasts will suffice.

[CarlGundel] well done

[Alyce] The free site is enough.

[Alyce] Just my opinion, of course.

[CarlGundel] On the other hand selling to schools will probably require lots of direct selling.

[Jan] I would think as well.

[Jan] It might do well to have a few educational applications for samples.

[Alyce] Personal license, professional license... is the pro license the one schools would use?

[CarlGundel] Also a few well done web applications that people can try will probably also do a great deal to promote RB.

[CarlGundel] Schools would use an educational license. This is different than the personal or pro system. It would integrate account management for instructors and students with interactive lessons and quizzes, etc.

[Jan] The timing is certainly right. There's a big push to demonstrate technology is being integrated into the classroom right now.

[BillB] I'd think the biggest need for schools would be a good textbook with teacher guides that could be dropped in as boilerplate to the curriculum.

[Jan] You're right, but beaurocracy dictates differently.

[Alyce] If only we knew a tech writer who has an interest in schools..

[Jan] So, essentially, non web-literate teachers are grabbing at anything 'simple' they can to be in compliance.

[CarlGundel] Yeah, who could do that kind of writing....?

[Alyce] "Creating Cool Web Pages Without Perl" -- maybe I'll give it a try?

[CarlGundel] Bill and Jan. I'm not sure what you guys are getting at?

[Alyce] Some teachers are trying to teach when they don't know diddly about programming

[Jan] I think a good program, such as Run BASIC, is timely right now.

[Alyce] I agree, Jan.

[Jan] I've been to a couple of tech inservices and blogging is being pushed.

[CarlGundel] Well, that's true. On the other hand RB will be good for the teachers to learn programming too.

[Jan] While I think reflection is a great learning tool, I'm not sure this is what technology embraces.

[Alyce] Right, Carl, that's the point... something the teachers can learn easily.

[BillB] Selling web development to the educational community won't fly unless it's transparent to, quoting Janet, non web-literate faculty

[Jan] Exactly, Carl, so Run BASIC will appeal to those teachers who haven't programmed, are learning a little HTML and they can actually produce something quuickly.

[CarlGundel] You mean blogging is being pushed as something to teach to children? Can't they just include that as a creating writing elective? OTOH kids probably know more about blogging than the teachers do.

[Jan] Ya think? My space comes to mind.

[CarlGundel] Well, I admit that selling RB to k12 would be appealing, but my primary focus is on the adult education sector.

[Alyce] Jan, would RB be of use to you as a teacher?

[Jan] It wouldn't to me because my students are very specific. but..

[Jan] I could certainly see this as a tool for grades 6 - 12.

[BillB] brb... gonna check the other names are clear in db so they can get back in.

[Jan] Just the ability to post practice test questions, etc. would be benefiical.

[CarlGundel] Making it easy for teachers to customize and add to the materials is definitely important.

[Jan] And having been to a couple of tech inservices with HS teachers, yeah, I think RB would be attractive to some.

[CarlGundel] I'd be interested in attending an appropriate conference or two. Are there any high profile conferences I should consider? Anyone know?

[Jan] There's a teacher's organization, MassONE, that's an e-newlstter for educators K-12.

[Alyce] NEA?

[Jan] I'll check them out and send you a few links.

[StefanP] Hello Girls and boys ;-)

[Jan] Hi, Stefan. Is it in the middle of the night for you?

[StefanP] No just 7:30 PM

[Alyce] Hi Stefan

[CarlGundel] Hi Stefan

[CarlGundel] Thanks for the pointers. I realize that I have a lot to learn about selling to schools.

[Jan] The important thing is you have a product that is just what they need -- easy to learn and effective. Truly, the timing couldn't be any better.

[CarlGundel] That's exciting. I think that I've learned though that you can have a solution to everyone's problems but if you can't make them understand that you're sunk. So, learning how to get the message across to the right people is the critical thing.

[Jan] I have to run now. I'll get together a few Massachusetts links / contacts sent to you.

[Jan] Bye all.

[CarlGundel] Thanks Jan!

[BillB] and keep IT happy. Like Blackboard, give each teacher their "space" and forget them. They'll do their own development.

[CarlGundel] Run BASIC will be very simple to administer. I think the IT people will like it.

[Alyce] Talk to you later! Bye

[StefanP] Since I am in the IT, will I like it ???

[CarlGundel] You'd better!

[BillB] Same here...

[BillB] okay folks, getting about that time... missed lunch. catch ya'll later.

[StefanP] I have some things I would realy like to use RB for, to keep me from learning HTML and Java Script.

[CarlGundel] Okay, bye Bill!

[CarlGundel] Well Stefan, you've come to the right place.

[BillB] I'll be back later to collect the transcript for Alyce.

[CarlGundel] It's just you and me Stefan.

[CarlGundel] Any specific questions?

[StefanP] I can do them in LB right now, but the need to have a network share to have access for more people and have only one place to maintain the apps is not the best way.

[CarlGundel] I see, so you'd like to convert some of your LB apps to web apps?

[StefanP] RB offers to have acces from any place without the need to use a network share, THATS useability and easy maintenance.

[CarlGundel] Yes. I'm happy to see that you understand the appeal of RB!

[CarlGundel] Have you seen the blog app screencast?

[StefanP] Your blog example inspired me to create a bug report page, because now I have to run through the whole place and ask people if they have problems.

[StefanP] Sure they have, but writting an e-mail addressed to me with the problem is SOOOO hard to do, when you just have to open explorer and go to the Exchange page ....

[CarlGundel] That's cool. I'm thinking about creating a TODO list manager (like a mini project manager) to help me and my wife keep in sync. I'm excited to use RB myself.

[CarlGundel] With a system like Run BASIC it will be easy to capitalize on new hi tech phones like the iPhone.

[CarlGundel] That phone has a real browser and should run RB apps nicely.

[StefanP] Do you have a schedule for RB 2.20, 2.19 with the links is awesome.

[CarlGundel] The 2.19 site actually has all the language features of the 2.20 demonstrated in the screencast. We'll come out with a new build pretty soon though I'm sure.

[StefanPend] Well our company network does not like to chat I think :

[CarlGundel] Oh. Did you lose your session?

[StefanPend] Yes Firewall connection error ;-D

[CarlGundel] We will put together another screencast sometime soon. I wan't to show how to style the blog application using CSS.

[StefanPend] Didn't know that, I just thought only the links have already been implemented, as you responded on conforum.

[CarlGundel] Did I say that? Hmm. Open mouth, insert foot.

[CarlGundel] You can use the password and textarea commands now.

[StefanPend] The videos are worth a thousend pages written.

[CarlGundel] Oh, the password command is actually passwordbox

[StefanPend] Hope I will have some time in the next days to do some more testing of RB, currently work is flushing me away, so that I usualy only answer my mails and hurry through the forums. not the best for an Admin and Mod :-(

[CarlGundel] Do you have a blog?

[CarlGundel] Hi again.

[CarlGundel] Hey, you're the IT. Fix that firewall.

[StefanP] I don't have a blog nor a diary. I am making up my mind privatly

[CarlGundel] I only asked because I want to encourage people who like LB and RB to blog about it. But you don't blog.

[StefanP] Well it is M$ ISA Server first release, we will try to upgrade to release 2007.

[StefanP] I am responsible for CAD and CAM manly, internet is for my department manager ;D

[CarlGundel] Does he use LB?

[CarlGundel] Or is he a she?

[StefanP] He is a he and use VB, I am the only one using about 5 different languages a week.

[CarlGundel] So you should hide his copy of VB and change his browser home to ;)

[CarlGundel] Anyways I'm just kidding of course.

[CarlGundel] Do you think that RB would be useful to others where you work?

[StefanP] Sorry, I do not even know where he has put it and I do not crack passwords either, but there seam to be some members entering LB world from time to time doing bad things.

[CarlGundel] Well, there doesn't seem that we can do much about that.

[StefanP] For a personal tool to get back to programming witout the need to install anything, yes.

[StefanP] We can ban them or offer them our copy of ISA

[CarlGundel] Do you think that a subscription service would be interesting?

[CarlGundel] I'm skeptical that this is a good business model, but I'm curious what others think.

[StefanP] I do use CITRIX Presentation Server which uses a subscription and I think it is good.

[StefanP] You pay for one year and can decide if you like to pay for another one, but get free updates even for major releases.

[CarlGundel] Yes, but what do you pay for that? I'm not sure I could make money selling RB as a service.

[StefanP] This is a per user payment, so you pay for concurrent use.

[CarlGundel] To be clear I mean subscription in the sense that we would host RB on our network. The customer would always be using RB remotely.

[Carl] Happened to me too that time

[Carl] This model means of course that the user really never would have to install anything.

[Carl] Hi Bill. Having some problems here.

[PendlS] Now I am trying IE6 instead of FF2, huray crashing servers the new competition

[Carl] funny.

[PendlS] As a remote service you would need a per user licensing system, every connected user will count till no license is left.

[CarlG] I see. This works well for customers that don't cause heavy loading.

[CarlG] Well, I should get going. Thanks for coming to the chat!

[PendlS] An application server is always hard to manage, because usage is very alternating. I had to increase resources myself this week, because of increasing traffic.

[CarlG] Yes.

[CarlG] Well, I've got to go.

[PendlS] I wish you a nice weekend see you at sunday

[CarlG] Thanks. You too!

[CarlG] bye!

[PendlS] Bye ...